Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Really? In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Grow up, you aint all that! abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. That could happen easily. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. . Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? to docile, too subtle, to contextual. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. PDs are dropping them from contracts. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Sound familiar? I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. I didnt even touch it! Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. It did not originally have this. Wheee!!. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. . Kyle . That focus drifts. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. You have entered an incorrect email address! But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. A fine of up to $10,000. The new Kirk does suck. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. I still own them all. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. 3. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. I continue to bet my life on them. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. That took a lot. You couldnt ask questions. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Was it his fault? If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Folks disagree on brands. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. there is no better. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. 01:10. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Too Many Accidents This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Theres a couple of possibilities. The problem was strikers. Plastic crap! You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Fair enough. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. I also have a manual safety. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. is the manual safety a kit you add? My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. You arent a gunfighter, either. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan Legal Penalties. LOL! The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. 2. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. He was told to shoot two rounds. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. Good job! This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Search Texas Statutes. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. how do I get one for my P320? Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Period. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? As they should. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. He was told to shoot two rounds. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Dont care for them, not my jam. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. He probably had a double until it was over. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. L. LRRifleman . Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. And have the dropping 320 go off? Look a fanboy. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. But this time, the sound bites used were different. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Theyre the only product that is not. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Thats the same. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! A shame but then no one was hurt. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation.

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